How to select the interior and exterior doors and windows with trim when building a new home
Rob: All right, looks like people are starting to trickle in here. Daniel, how are you doing?
Daniel: Doing great.
Rob: Thanks for joining us. We'll just give everybody a few more minutes here and then we'll jump into it. People are scrambling to grab their lunches maybe. All right. Let's kick it off. So, first of all, thank you everybody for joining us for, I guess our second webinar of the series to go through this week, interior and entry doors and also trim when building a new home. I will be touching on maybe one of the biggest, most impactful decisions when building a new house, which is the entry door. That's certainly a big one but all these other decisions, putting an interior door trim and interior trim also make a big difference that we'll be jumping into.
To start, just kind of give everybody a brief overview of how this webinar is going to run. We're going to give a quick intro on Livio and who we are, give Daniel an opportunity to introduce himself and let you all know about all the great work that San Lorenzo does. I'll then jump into talking about interior doors, entry doors, door accessories, interior trim, and lastly, we're going to leave some time for Q&A here at the end. So, hopefully everybody has an opportunity to ask any questions that might come up. If anybody's unfamiliar with the format of webinars, you can ask questions kind of two different ways. One is there's that little Q&A or question bubble there at the top that you can click and you can post your question there and I'll see that and I'll be able to address it either during the session or most likely at the end during that 10-minute period. Or alternatively, you can also raise your hand virtually and I can give you the opportunity to enter the mic so to speak and give you the opportunity to talk that way.
Without further ado, I think most of you guys who are attending here probably know about Livio. But we're a general contractor. Ultimately, we're in the business of building beautiful custom homes for anybody who's interested throughout the entire Bay Area. We partner with some of the best and most renowned vendors, subcontractors throughout the Bay Area. This is one forum where we let them display their expertise and give our homeowners and potential clients the opportunity to learn more about the building process so that they can make more informed decisions during their projects. So, hopefully you find this webinar series really helpful. Our business model is pretty unique. We're a technology driven general contractor. We are vertically integrated. We have engineers on staff, we have an entire procurement team, entire sub-contracting team, etc. that's really just dedicated to ensuring that each and every area of focus within a project isn't neglected and is paid attention to appropriately. That distributed team allows us to really vertically integrate and allows for some great cross-collaboration and ultimately, the objective being, of course, to try to finish your job on time and on budget, which is what our entire team tries to do. With that said, I'll pass the mic off to Daniel and let him do a quick intro.
Daniel: Hello, everybody. My name is Daniel. I work for a company San Lorenzo located in the SoCal area, outskirt of the Bay Area. Our prime focus is to service the Bay Area and outside surrounding areas with material needs for construction from light commercial to mainly residential. Now, San Lorenzo has been in business for roughly over 80 years. We have recently been bought out by a company named ProBuild in 2014. That helped open us up to more avenues as far as what we offer as a company in materials, especially in the millwork division. We have national accounts with companies like Emtek, Jeld-Wen, True Style, and so forth. This gives us an opportunity to be competitive with what the market offers as far as millwork products.
Just to tap in on that and a little bit about myself, I've been doing this for roughly about eight years. I primarily like to focus on single family custom homes as it's definitely a different model compared to something that's track, which is your standard cookie-cutter house. Custom homes are something I've really been attracted to. It feels good to be a part of these very beautiful builds, especially working with you guys on the Windsor project has definitely been great to see what you guys develop as a company and how we're able to provide the products you guys need to help achieve that dying piece look for your clients. Because I see that the market is starting to transition as far as the aesthetics and how things are being designed, framed, and developed. So, it's really good to be a part of that. Now, our millwork division, I primarily sell doors custom standard, as far as windows as well and trim products for casing, crown base molding and so forth. That's generally what I focus on. We do also offer home decor, bathroom, kitchen, lumber as well.
Rob: Awesome. And Daniel, do you guys have some showrooms? If so, where are those showrooms located? Because you've got to give a brief little rundown of that as well.
Daniel: Yeah, so we do have showrooms in the surrounding California area. Primarily, our focus would be in River Street in Santa Cruz, and also 41st Street in SoCal, which is relatively close down this street. And then if you start to venture south, we have got one in Watsonville and Salinas as well. But my primary focus is I'm stationed at 41st Street, and we have a nice showroom with all our products that we offer. So, if customers want to get a feel and a touch for what we offer, they're more than welcomed to come visit. We're even opened on Saturdays for those who have busy work week schedules.
Rob: Awesome. Cool. All right. Well, without further ado, first of all I think we were initially maybe a little bit overzealous and thought that we might be able to get through windows, doors, and interior trim. But unfortunately, after we looked through the agenda a little bit more, we thought, hey, let's focus on and really dive in so that we can give the attention it deserves to doors and trim both interior and entry. And in addition to that, since it goes right in mind, all the casing and interior moldings that might be incorporated as part of the architectural design as well. I apologies if anybody was hoping to get to Windows today. Hopefully, Daniel I'm sure that that'll be another conversation, I think in and of itself. Maybe just a webinar specifically for Windows at some point here soon that hopefully you can help us out with.
But with that said, maybe we can start by Daniel just at a high level, millwork is a term that I think is primarily used in more commercial space. But just to give everybody more of a rundown of kind of what we're going to be talking about today, we're going to be talking about a number of different aspects of interior finishing including door styles, of course, and everything that goes into it. This is a bit more of an entry door sort of where you have a bit more features and accessories to chat about, but we'll get into lock sets, we'll get into door sills, we can talk about sidelights a little bit during the entry door section. Certainly, we'll talk about some different jam styles that are there, Daniel, which you look forward to. Talking even about the hinges that are important decision as well for some clients. And of course, on the trim side of things, we're going to be talking about all the different molding that's there including crown, door casing around doors, window casing, and all the other window casing that might be there and also baseboard. In that same breath, we'll also talk about some of the more, I guess modern ways and trends that we're seeing people finish, add doors and windows and kind of how that ties back into everything that Daniel provides as a service. Daniel, anything that I missed on this that you wanted to touch on?
Daniel: I think you pretty much covered as far as like the fundamental, what components make an actual door itself.
Rob: Awesome. Awesome. Okay, so let's jump into the first topic here, which is going to be interior doors. Daniel, I didn't consult with you before I did this so correct me if I'm wrong here. But I broke it out as material goes first for the very first thing and bringing it down kind of into three basic categories, hollow core, MDF, and solid wood as just kind of the first topic. Can you first just kind of explain the differences between those different products that are there and what are maybe some of the use cases for each of those different materials?
Daniel: Yeah. In regards to the hollow core doors, those are generally what you would call a molded door. They're more cost effective. It's perfect if you're building a lot full of different residents as far as like a full lot house. Ideally, the reason why they're more cost-effective doors is I kind of call them your cookie-cutter doors. It's a mass production skin with a particular profile that a distributor will provide such as like Jeld-Wen, everybody tends to have most of those doors. It's your most common door, very cost effective. It's really good, quick turnaround. And as far as that goes, when you want to get something more along the lines of a true door is what I would call it, that would be your style and rail door and those would be your MDF and solid wood doors. A really good company that manufactures MDF doors are True Style, Rogue Valley, Doormerica, and Buffelen.
MDF is actually a very good component as far as going with a paint grade door because you have a very good smooth surface. It doesn't absorb like solid wood would. And because of that, it gives you a nice finish. It's also more dense than wood. So, for durability reasons it's good. Also, for STC rating, people want more privacy, they want more security. I advise you go with an MDF door. However, they do cost more than your hollow wood.
Rob: When you say STC, what do you mean by STC?
Daniel: Yes, STC would basically be the acoustics. Sometimes people like to have privacy, especially when you're building these bigger homes when you have media rooms where you have people and they have this nice theatre set up in their house. You might have a kitchen over here where somebody wants a little bit more privacy because they want to listen to a YouTube channel, have some sort of brief presentation on how to cook a meal. But yeah, you have your kids who want to watch in theatre room. That's what the acoustics matters. And what's good about that too, is we can also modify these doors with door bottoms and soundproof stripping, weatherstripping to help accommodate and achieve that particular thing that you're looking for.
Rob: Awesome. And what about solid wood?
Daniel: Solid wood is more good for the aesthetics. I think for people who along the lines want something with that nice rustic look. Say for example, like walnut or mahogany, very beautiful woods. They also cost low. That's generally what you would get from a solid with door. It's something I wouldn't advise you look into if you're going to paint your door, because you take away from the appeal.
Rob: Is there any advantage if you're going to paint the door? Is there any advantage of going with solid wood over MDF on your opinion?
Daniel: Not necessarily. No. Because the wood tends to be more porous. Because of that, it takes a lot more priming. There's just a lot more labor involved to paint a solid wood door versus an MDF door.
Rob: Got it.
Daniel: And as I mentioned too, it's not as dense. I know we kind of have this myth on our mind that wood's heavier than MDF, but it's actually not. MDF gives you that more substantial fill. But I really do love wood doors. Like I said, if you're trying to achieve that rustic look, that nice style, you can also get that rustic contemporary look going on with the solid wood door that stain grade basically.
Rob: Got it. Got it. And MDF, can you describe? Are most of the doors that you have is the exterior? You know, kind of what are the different veneer options on an MDF core door? Are there multiple different options? What's kind of the variety that's out there for consumers to choose from?
Daniel: We have MDF and HDF. HDF would be for customers who are more into the eco-friendly type of door. Because MDF technically by the state of California is known to release cancerous gases. Because of that, there's another variation which is the glue component that actually does it. It's called HDF. With that being said, HDF would be for more of those people who are conscious of something that's more health friendly to your clients who are interested in seeking something if they're concerned about health hazards. But the different components in MDF, some companies they manufacture MDF wood doors. So, to cut on costs and to also kind of incorporate the two, they'll use wood core with MDF overlays and maybe some MDF paddles. It helps with production. It also helps cut costs too as MDF is a lot more cost effective to manufacture than direct wood itself.
Rob: Got it. Do you ever advise or do you ever have customers who come to you and say, "Hey, I want hollow core in my in accessory, in my non master bedroom"? Or "I want MDF in my master and I want solid wood for my barn doors, for example." Do you ever get that and what's your advice for folks who are interested in potentially mixing different types of material doors and what are the factors to consider there?
Daniel: Oh, all the time. Generally, in most cases we throw out a big build or depending on the residence size and their demand. We generally use all styles of doors, all types of doors. For example, you might have a closet that's generally not a primary focus and it has a visual appeal to complement the theme of the house, for example, like the furnace room. To save on costs, we'll give you a hollow core door that's flush, maybe throw some vents there if it's required by code. For the exterior doors, sometimes people don't want to have that grand appeal, especially for like the exterior garage door. So, we'll just kind of go with maybe a fiberglass door, something very basic. There are just areas of the house where there's not too much focus. Now, when we start to get to areas like the lobby area or like for an area where you kind of got the theme of the house just shining as a centerpiece, then I think that's where you would want to focus more spending on your doors. For example, if you have a nice barn door, you can go with solid wood and for your standard interior swinging doors, you can go with MDF. And I think that's what you guys are doing along the lines at Windsor where you have a couple of wood doors and the rest are going to be the solid Berkeley style Masonite doors.
Rob: Sure. Now that makes sense. Then as far as giving people general guidance goes, I know there's probably different varieties to that maybe. But as far as the standard widths go, is this more or less what you see as kind of the standards and for standard heights, are there any ones that I'm missing within this family?
Daniel: Yes, that's generally the standard width for bedrooms, bathrooms, and so forth. Now they do make linen sizes, which generally starts roughly at 18 inches, but they're in increments of two, basically. So, from 18 and up, 18, 20, 22, 24, 26, and so on. That's generally the standard size. And it's very important that you keep within those sizes because what you have to understand, when you have the construction of a door, you have the styles which are the left and the right rail. You have the other top rail which is of course the head piece and you have the bottom rail, as you can see in the picture. Those components are very important to frame around because you can only modify a door so much. When we start to go beyond what the manufacture requires, then you lose warranty on door, especially if you're going to get an expensive door, roughly running between four to six to 800 up to 1,000, it's very important that the framing aspect is done according to what the standard sizes are. Because if you were to say, frame two inches shorter on the height, most vendors even if they'll customize it, they only allow you to save so much. And when you start going outside of the standard size range, lead times increase and cost starts to skyrocket. And when you have up to 10 to 15 doors to where you obviously have to customize because the framing wasn't done accordingly, then you start to increase cost for your customer and builds and stretch lead times.
Rob: Long story short, it'll make multiple jobs easier if we stay within the standard width then. Okay, cool. Styling of different door types. And again, this is only really talking about the door itself. Of course, there's other factors to consider. But I put down two styles here, kind of the panel style, which I think is the one that's shown here on the right, where you essentially have panels inset, in this case, into the door itself. Can you describe a little bit about what a flush door looks like?
Daniel: The flush door is just basically a smooth finish door with just a surface.
Rob: Got it.
Daniel: It tends to be in though. It's very contemporary. It's actually a nice-looking door. That's generally what a flash door is.
Rob: What sort of architectural styles do you see with clients? Let's say the exterior of the house is, let's say more like a craftsman or traditional style house, would you typically see a panel style interior door there? Is that kind of the standard and more flush panel is more associated with the modern style of architecture or do you see it kind of mixed both ways?
Daniel: It's a combination of both. I think generally, depending on what the architect kind of specs out, I've seen a mixture. There are different themes sometimes going on. Sometimes the interior you might have modern, outside might be farm style because they're two different looks. But in most cases, you can incorporate both of them depending on how well you do it, how you transition, and that will play into other factors as well as far as the builds go, paneling and so forth.
Rob: I've seen a lot of different panel options and you've probably seen even more. The options are kind of endless there. Is that fair to say? There's a lot of different options out there.
Daniel: Definitely. And that plays a big factor in the look too. Because I mean, for example, the picture you have, you can modernize it if you were to go with a flat profile and do a shaker sticking that would turn a transitional door into a modern looking door. Those are very good modifications you can make.
Rob: Got it? All right, well, so we don't really have time on everything else. Just quickly, for interior doors, I'm looking at a few different operation styles. We have hinged, which I think it's kind of your standard swing door. You've got your sliding doors, which I guess I can ask you to talk a little bit about that. Folding doors, which maybe you can talk quickly about that and the use case. Bypass doors, where do you see the utmost typical. Pocket doors, where you'd advise a client to maybe go with a pocket door. And then barn doors, which we're seeing more and more of these days. Can you quickly kind of talk about maybe use cases and where you most often see these different door types and where you'd recommend them.
Daniel: Yeah, hinge doors are definitely of course, bedroom, bathroom areas where you're generally going to be using a lot more often. Bedroom, Bathroom and so forth. Sliding doors are pocket doors that generally slide into a frame inside the wall. And what's good about a pocket door is you allow yourself to open more space. For example, you have a smaller room on the other side of an opening and you want to kind of fill it in with an office, for example. That allows you to have no obstruction from a swinging door. So, you can put your desk right against up until the frame opening of the opposite door itself. So, it's really good for that. Now, people tend to use those in closets, offices, areas where they're just a lot smaller and there's not room for obstruction of a pre-hung door.
Now, for the folding door, generally, those are areas where you want to open out a little bit more and if you want a lot more access. So generally, like closets and so forth are areas where you have your folding doors, pantries. Areas where you want full accessibility, but you also don't want to obstruct anything outside of that radius where they're going to swing out. For example, if you have a double door, maybe you want to put some furniture on the left and to the right, but you know, the door's going to obstruct that or the room might be too small, because the bed's going to be in the way, you can definitely go with the folding door. And bypass, it's a good option but you do lose accessibility. It's also helps limit obstructions, but you only get half the access or depending on how big the opening. Now, you could do triple track bypass systems to help open up for example, if you have a 96-inch width opening. And of course, if you're not going to go with the custom door, then you go with three doors, you know, three 28-inch doors, so forth.
Rob: Sorry, just a quick clarification there I since I missed a photo here and actually bypass is probably one that maybe people are least familiar with. But essentially, where the pocket is shown, on the pocket door you'd essentially have one panel and where actually the door itself slides would essentially be another panel and they fold on top of one another. Is that correct?
Daniel: That's correct. Yes.
Rob: So essentially, your opening size, even though your door opening maybe is six feet, your actual opening is maybe only three feet?
Daniel: Yeah, it's roughly 36 inches.
Rob: Got it. Okay. And then if you maybe can quickly just talk about the barn style door, that would be great.
Daniel: Barn style doors are more for aesthetics. It looks nice, it helps fill the wall too if you have a wide opening. Now do understand when you have these doors, you have to keep in mind that you need two times a wall space to accommodate that look. And it's good because it gives the house a nice rustic feel. I see a lot of people do them like in their master bath areas, pantries, and so forth. It also allows you as mentioned, to not obstruct any sort of areas in the opposing room or wherever the door would swing if you were to have a hinge door. But it's more of a decorative piece, I think.
Rob: Yeah, no doubt. As far as like the price goes, says it's the same exact opening size across all of these, if you were just kind of rank them, let's say at a higher level, is it fair to say that actually your pocket doors are probably more the top of the budget end for these openings? And where does that kind of fall with barn doors? Are they pretty similar?
Daniel: Well, pocket doors tend to be more depending because of the construction. Because not only are you buying the door slab, you're also buying the frame itself. So, depending on the construction, the quality of the hardware, and then you have to think about the pocket lock itself. I don't think everybody likes the traditional square lock. People want something that's more functional, more practical. So, when you do those, you have to go with like a mortise lock. And those tend to run more, the prep work is not standard so the cost actually do increase for a pocket door.
Daniel: Barn door would probably be a more cost-effective option to achieve that sliding door function but without paying as much for the pocket frame and so forth. Now the track does cost, but it's probably half the price that you would pay for a pocket frame with hardware.
Rob: Got it. Okay. Anything else on interior doors before we move on? I want to make sure we get to everything but I want to make sure there wasn't anything too important that I may have missed Daniel.
Daniel: Yeah, I think that's basically a good general understanding.
Rob: Awesome. So, entry doors. Obviously, big statement in any house, right? And an important decision for any end consumer. Materials, I have three materials listed here. I don't know if there's any major categories that I missed; fiberglass, steel, wood. Can you kind of give a brief overview of the different material types? And hopefully, I got the $1 sign $2 sign $3 sign roughly correct, but it'll be great if you could elaborate a bit more.
Daniel: Well, fiberglass can actually cost you as much as wood. The thing about fiberglass, with technology today, you're able to really replicate that wood look and feel, but you get the peace of mind without having to maintain it. Don't get me wrong, what's beautiful, the craftsmanship behind it, you can modify and do whatever you want with it. And I think that's one thing about wood why it's a lot better than fiberglass is because the craftsmanship. The workability behind it, you can modify it, you can make it whatever size you want. Now, with fiberglass, it's just the mold. So, you're obligated to stick within standard sizes and with whatever vendor molds they offer. So, you can't really customize it. As far as steel, it's kind of a dying heart once fiberglass got introduced into the game. It’s kind of like taking steel out of the picture. And that's due to the fact that for one fiberglass; it's more impact resistant, it's more energy efficient than a steel door because steel tends to absorb the heat. And even though you have a foam core, they'll still thermally go through it. Now, with fiberglass, it doesn't dent like steel would. So, because you have that luxury of that, it's starting to replace steel doors. Steel doors is kind of something of the past now. People still do use it. Some people might have a furnace room in the back that they want to throw a louvred metal door and they'll throw a steel door there sometimes.
Rob: Definitely speaking, we can rule steel doors out at this point.
Daniel: Pretty much. I mean, I have seen some manufacturers make some pretty nice-looking modern steel doors. But it's not something that people really shop for nowadays. Like I said, it's a dying heart. But with entry doors, what I like about an entry door is it's the showcase to your house, it's the show piece. It's what people see when they first walk in and it's the last thing they see when they leave. When it comes to wood, I advise that your customers go with wood because you can do so many different options between the lighting, the paneling, you have your satellite options as the door in the picture with the red color door. That gives it a really nice appeal. That would be something more along the lines of a craftsman style. And especially taking it to the components as far as like the hardware, the hinges, those are other factors that do play a factor in the look of the door. I think with your project on Windsor, you guys are going to look really nice, looking modern style pivot door, which generally doesn't use your standard latching hardware or weather-stripping system that a traditional pre-hung door would use.
Now, what I like about pivot doors is you get a lot more accessibility and the appeal looks nice. It's modern, sleek, and contemporary. You can also go with the French style door like with the archtop door in the picture with the overhang. That also gives it a nice look. I would say that's something you would use along the lines for like a farm style. It's still in style too. People still are going with the double French door. But right now, what I'm seeing a lot of is 48 inch and wider and taller for the entry doors. Standard used to be 36. Now it's 42 and up is what I'm starting to see on these new builds. But most of the market is still sticking with your standard traditional pre hung hinged door.
Rob: Got it. Okay. We talked quickly about pivot doors. One thing that we see people go with a pivot door is potentially because they could achieve, you mentioned the wide opening, everybody wants this grand entry and walk way in. Is it true that pivot doors give you possibly the option to kind of achieve that without having to go to maybe a double French door?
Daniel: Definitely. I mean, for one, you're just dealing with one huge door. The functionality behind it too, it pivots. So, it sways in or out.
Rob: Essentially, it doesn't have these hinges just to be clear, right? It's actually pivoting the door itself from maybe not a midpoint, but possibly a midpoint. But it's somewhere in the middle of the door itself. Is that right?
Daniel: Correct. It's roughly two thirds from the back end of the jamb of the door. And its pivoting hardware, there's a company named, I think Rick's is probably one of the main providers of pivoting hardware, which is really good. I think, generally, you want to go with a pivoting door if you're looking for that really nice modern look. That's ideally what I would recommend pivoted doors for.
Rob: When people say lights in front doors, what do they mean by lights if you were to describe it? I know there's a lot of different options there too.
Daniel: Generally, lights would be basically glass in your door side light.
Rob: Got it.
Daniel: It's good if you want to expose more light in your entrance or your foyer, it's a good option to go. And then glass is elegant too. I think it's a nice touch as far as the aesthetics go because you can modify it. You can make different glass styles and so forth from frosted to decorative.
Rob: Yep, yep, makes total sense. Any consideration to be made for let's say, so weather being a factor and durability I think is one thing you mentioned between the fiberglass option and the wood option. If somebody is going with the wood option, from your standpoint and from a warranty standpoint, what sort of overhang and sort of protection from the elements would you advise for any sort of natural wood opening? Is there a standard kind of, "Hey, this is approximate how much of an overhang or protection you should have from the elements?" How do you make that determination?
Daniel: Well, our vendors generally require that the overhang is roughly two thirds the size of the door, the height of the door, basically. So, if you have a door that's roughly eight feet tall, it's going to be two thirds of that as far as the projection of your awning in order for them to warranty it. Now, depending on where the house is facing, that's going to determine if you're still going to get sunlight or not. Because even though you might meet that requirement, if you're facing like more towards the north, for example, you're still going to get a portion of a certain sunlight in the time of the day. So, positioning plays a big factor in that too.
Rob: Got it. Got it. Okay. And finish options, what options are there for prefinished that are out there and how often do you see a client electing to go to a pre-finishing? Maybe what are some of the reasons why somebody might elect to go that route?
Daniel: Oh, it's good about a prefinished door option is; for one you get a vendor warranty. So, you get the warranty with the door and I think that primarily supersedes everything. Because generally, unless you're going to go with like a third-party standard, whatever he offers as far as warranty goes, it's not going to be as good as a vendor door who warranties your door. For example, like a fiberglass prefinished door, I know Therma Tru offers like a 15-year warranty. 15-year-old paint and 10 on stain. So, you get a lot more life out of your door and peace of mind for a consumer because nobody really wants to have to fix things, you know. But that's definitely the benefit.
Rob: So that we can keep moving along, I'll probably skip over the standard sizing since I think that most people when it comes to entry doors, it's a bit more of maybe an emotional decision as opposed to necessarily, and there's a lot of different options, combinations between sidelights, door openings. I won't get into all of that right now since we may run out of time if that's the case. But what are some of the biggest cost factors? There's material which we discussed, which is, it sounds like fiberglass can get just as expensive as wood in some instances depending upon the size and also kind of the style that you're going for of course. What are some of the other cost factors people should be aware of when selecting an entry door? What are some of the things that drive that cost up?
Daniel: Well, big cost factors would be to try to stick within a standard size Just don't do oddball sizes. Take into consideration the framework behind it. For example, if you're going to go with a 36-inch door with two 12-inch side lights, some people might build within just that dimension itself, but you have to take into consideration the frame. Because once everything's framed out to that, then you're obligated to have to basically get a custom sized door. Biggest cost factor is to try to stick within what would be considered a standard size from your vendor.
Rob: Got it.
Daniel: Now, if your customers have more of a budget, they want to achieve that look because as you mentioned, it's something more emotional, then hey, you're open to get whatever you like. But it's going to cost of course. But it's limitless, you know, but I try to stay within the standards within the twos, you know, 36, 48 as mentioned eight-foot, seven foot, six, eight.
Rob: Okay, so kind of the same kind of similar increments to what we add on the interior doors more or less?
Rob: Okay. All right. Door accessories. There's a lot of them. We'll jump right into it. Hinges. I think most people on this webinar probably know what door hinges are. But a couple different options that maybe people aren't aware of. One being concealed hinges which are pretty sleek. But you want to talk quickly about kind of what a concealed hinge might offer or provide to a client?
Daniel: Oh, concealed hinges offer to you that very nice sleek modern look. Sometimes if you go with like a kerf drywall, they look beautiful to just have hinge in it.
Rob: We'll get that in the next slide.
Rob: We'll get into the kerfed jambs on the next slide.
Daniel: No, but that complements that though. That's the thing about the hidden hinge. It's something that I think will mainly pertain to a particular look. They're also good for like hidden doors. Maybe if a customer has like something they want paneling they want to hide maybe underneath the stairs, some people try to do hidden doors. So, a concealed hinge will help you achieve that look.
Rob: I missed that hardware option on here. But yeah, one of those push doors where essentially you can pop open a door that looks like it's flushed to the wall.
Rob: Yeah. Okay, cool. Hardware options. You know, there's, of course doorknobs. There are more handle sets, which are something more like this. You've got deadbolts, pocket door hardware, you mentioned a little bit. People maybe not electing to go to maybe the more standard options or maybe going with more of a premium hardware option on some of the pocket door hardware. There's a lot of entry door hardware packages out there. And lastly, kind of what we've been seeing more and more are some of the smart locks. So, a lot of content there, of course, but I think doorknobs and handles are kind of self-explanatory a bit. Obviously, there's a few different types of locking mechanisms that are out there. There's a passage just for kind of your standard, let's say office sort of doors where no privacy would be required. Then there's your privacy or maybe it's your passage also if you have a young child or a teenager maybe who you don't want them locking the door on you. Then there's your privacy hardware, that would be your bathrooms, maybe your master, or other bathrooms or other bedrooms rather. There's the fixed handle, of course or dummy handle, which might be there for like a swing door or something that doesn't have a locking component and it's just kind of to cover maybe a closet or something along those lines. But anything else that is worthwhile to discuss within doorknobs and handles?
Daniel: Yeah, tapping into the handle sets for the entry. You have your tubular, which would be your standard latching system and then you have your mortise. Now what's good for a mortise prep lock is it's highly secure. It's not your standard tubular or latching system that they use. It's a very intricate component that's really highly secure for those people who want the peace of mind of locking their door and not concerned about somebody breaking in because it blocks from different points. The design of the latch is roughly like a fork. So, it looks like this and it’s sisters. And as far as the deadbolt aspect of it, it's basically a square component. A rectangular shaped component with two tubes inside because sometimes people can [unintelligible 00:44:54] through your standard or brass latching set that's the oval. So that makes it more secure because you can't really [unintelligible 00:45:03] through it. Mortise lock is something I recommend for those who are concerned about security for their entry door.
Rob: That's a great point. That's a really good point. And of course, I think there's a lot of different keyless entry pad systems and different options out there depending upon whether you're an Alexa person, a Google person or whatever else. Jumping into I guess, last piece for door accessories, all the stops that are there, there's a hinge stop, which can be mounted more typically on the on the hinge itself of a door that prevents the door. There's a spring stop, which is usually mounted to the door itself but more old school maybe.
Daniel: Like in 70s, yeah.
Rob: Yeah, 1970s. Baseboard mount, I guess that's probably where you see most typically. Is that fair to say?
Daniel: Yeah, that's fair to say. It's the most common.
Rob: You've got your wall mounts. I guess where you might see that is if maybe it's an extremely heavy door, I guess. Or I don't know if there's any other use cases that you've seen it be helpful.
Daniel: It's an option opposed to the dome stop for the floor. Some people don't want to drill into the tile because it's hard and you could crack the porcelain. So, you can go with a wall stop, you know.
Rob: As opposed to kind of a floor mounted dome stop, you can do a wall mount. Okay. That makes sense. And then there's also some cool magnetic stops as well which kind of give you the opportunity to actually leave the door open if you're bringing in groceries. Maybe it's more common on entry sort of doors. I don't know of where you've seen most commonly, Daniel.
Daniel: Yeah, mainly like in entry doors and exterior garage doors. Yeah, definitely.
Rob: Okay. And any cool kind of new trends and doorstops that you've seen recently?
Daniel: Well, there's a hinge pin stop. So, depending on what type of hinge you get, if you have like a standard plain bearing hinge, then there's this company called Door Stopper. And what's good about that is because your traditional stop, the first one you have on the left with the rubber grommet on top, that goes inside the hinge. You pop the hinge out, you put that in place where it's round, where the circles are cut out. The problem with those hinge stops is they beat up your trim.
Daniel: So, if you have like MDF trim, over time, the weight of the door, if it slams against it, it starts to beat up against your trim. It also starts to bend the hinge slightly. When you have the hinge pin stop, basically, it's a locking mechanism that's adjustable on top of the hinge. So, you can place where you want the door to stop at. So, if you want like 45, 75 degree up to 90 degree or 100, you know, close to where it's going to hit the wall, you can position that too. It's a very nice one and it's a low profile.
Rob: Cool. I'm going to jump into the last topic which is trim. One question that we see a lot is casing or no casing around doors. You already talked about it quite a bit but there's this option of a kerfed curved jamb or the drywall actually finishes into the jamb itself, right? This being the jamb. Or you kind of conceal the jamb and the frame with this door casing. And there's a lot of different options there. I can tell you from general contractor side of things, our price from a drywall perspective jumps way up as soon as we go with the kerfed jamb option. But what other considerations are there that are out there and what are the options for casing?
Daniel: Well, I mean, it's endless. Depending on what look you're trying to achieve, you can go with your craftsman style, which generally would have a high header. You'd use like a one buy material. If you want to go with something that's more flush and recessed, kind of along the look of what you got in the bottom right with the base, that's an option too. A look like that, you would have to like kerf behind the jamb itself and use the full width of the jamb. It's like a Z bar is what they call it
Rob: In this, I'll say the caveat, not a flush baseboard but a surface mount baseboard. Similar to this, I guess, but in this case, we also have paneling up top. But this similarly also we do see a big jump in the drywall cost. People sometimes think well, it's less. What do you mean? It's the same amount of material and everything else. But this drywall finish here and this drywall finish here, these kerf jambs really start to add up. And it's all that more difficult to kind of hide any sort of maybe some minor workmanship imperfections that might be there as a result, which is also always a challenge. So, Daniel, I always encourage people to buy moldings from you.
Daniel: No, it's a lot easier. But they also have some very nice-looking modern moldings, I think. EL & EL Wood Products came up with this notched molding, so it has a square curve. And it really complements. It helps you get that look that you're trying to achieve at the bottom. It's a very low profile too.
Rob: You get this reveal that we see here. But it's actually surface mounted to the drywall. So, it actually mimics this reveal look but the application is entirely different.
Daniel: Definitely. Yeah, it's entirely different. Of course, we all know the casing is an aesthetic piece to cover the gap between the drywall and the door jamb, the doorframe itself. So, it helps complement that look. And just to kind of tap in on the whole kerf jamb look, that kind of taps into the concealed hinge that we were talking about earlier. Sometimes the standard door hinge that you have here at the bottom left next to the concealed, the dimension of it is to accommodate somebody who's using casing. So sometimes when a client or a customer... you know, it can kind of stick out like a sore thumb in a way depending what look you want. But there's a company, Emtek who has developed this very nice looking modern contemporary hinge. It's a square barrel hinge. So, the butt of the hinge, it's square. Really, really nice-looking hinge. It's a lot thicker than your standard hinge. But that would help complement that kerf look if you're trying to go with it, but alleviate the cost of going with a concealed hinge door because they get pricey. You're looking at roughly 250 per inch on some of these concealed hinges, if you want to get a good hinge, because there's a way you can cut costs and go with a SOSS brand. But the problem with the SOSS hinges is that they're nonadjustable. So, from an installer's point of view, basically, if nothing is done to T, it's going to be complicated and the cost can skyrocket.
Rob: Puts all that much more pressure on our framer to get it right.
Rob: I'm going to stop there so we leave a little bit of time for Q&A. I'm going to leave up the contact information here and I'm going to go into some questions that we had from the group. So let me pull up this real quick. Give me just one second guys. Thanks for being patient with me here. Okay, so. All right. First question, can you get a smart lock on a multipoint door?
Rob: So, the answer is no. Okay. No, that you can't even get creative with it? So first, can you explain to everybody what a multipoint door is?
Daniel: A multipoint locking system basically, of course, it says within itself, it's multipoint locked. So, you have a top component, middle locking, and you have a bottom latch. I haven't found a vendor yet. I'm not saying it doesn't exist. But from what I know of they don't exist yet. Most smart locks are tubular.
Daniel: So, the reason why you can't combine the two is because you have to [unintelligible 00:54:06] the side of the door.
Rob: So [unintelligible 00:54:10] is like just like a notch.
Daniel: Yeah, it's just a notch. It's [unintelligible 00:54:14] it's cut out. It's a channel and that whole channel is committed to the multipoint locking system.
Rob: Got it. Got it. I guess you could you kind of Jimmy rig or kind of cowboy a deadbolt smart lock in addition to the mortise for that kind of defeats the purpose of that point, I guess.
Daniel: If somebody is a mechanical engineer, they could do whatever they want, you know. Or an electrical engineer, they can. But on the market, you can't incorporate the two. It doesn't work.
Rob: Nothing on the market. Okay. And pivot doors, where do they fall in price conversation as opposed to, let's say your standard front door? I'm going to put you on the spot. You have a five-foot opening, okay? You have an option of going with a three-foot door, one foot side light or you have the option of going with a five-foot pivot door, what's roughly the cost? Maybe not dollar figure cost delta, but is it 30% more for a pivot door for that same opening size? What could a client expect?
Daniel: It's hard to put in an approximation because it's its own beast, you know. When you start going with the pivot door and you start to go with something that wide, you start to go thicker. For one, you have to go two and a quarter inch thick minimum to accommodate the hardware. Most of the hardware, for example, like Rixson, that's their requirement. The construction's a lot different, roughs are a lot different too when you're building to a pivot because you don't use a standard weatherstrip frame with an exterior kerf jamb or frame as you would call it. The installation is completely different compared to your standard installation of an entry door because it's knock down. It doesn't come assembled. So, because it has to be plumbed out and levelled on the job. Because there's no such thing as a straight frame. That's just how things work. We don't live in a perfect world. You have to accommodate that and the installation costs start to skyrocket, the material costs start to go up because technically, you might think even though there's less components involved, you're asking for a lot more on the customer side of things versus your standard traditional door. Yeah, there's a lot more components involved, but the market is designed around that already. And because of that, you definitely wouldn't spend as much as a pivot. It can go up anywhere between 50 to 60% more depending, but there's also other factors too.
Daniel: Type of door you're looking for, the aesthetics, if you're going to go with species or paint grade, all those factors play a part in the pricing comparison.
Rob: Makes sense. One other question we have, do you see crown molding in modern homes ever? Is there any sort of modern crown molding options that are out there for people to possibly consider?
Daniel: Yeah. I've seen some step moldings. I've seen people use actual base. They'll do like a double stack, you know.
Rob: With kind of regular square or rectangular profile sort of.
Daniel: Exactly, where kind of is just more like an L shape. They'll butt up two bases and cork the center. They also have one called the cove, which basically it's a contemporary molding. It's a cove, basically that's more modern. I've seen people use a craftsman style, which is more full and then you have two bevels on the edges. So, to answer your question, yes, people do use crown for modern houses. It's not common though. Me personally, I think it looks better without it. But depending on how broad the area is. If you have a vaulted ceiling, I wouldn't do crown because it's vaulted for one. There are other factors to playing into if it's good to apply it or not. But you can use it. They do make modern touch.
Rob: Another question we have, one question we have is a four foot by nine-foot opening and looking for a modern farmhouse sort of look. What have you seen maybe most commonly or maybe what do you see in style right now for this modern farmhouse sort of architecture?
Daniel: For modern farmhouse architecture, that bottom right door is ideally where I would go. Anything with divided lights would kind of give you that farmhouse, lower panel. I would modernize that by possibly applying like a square sticking and a flat panel.
Rob: What do you mean, a square sticking?
Daniel: A square sticking is a detail between the actual style and rail of the door and the panel.
Daniel: It's what holds the panel in place. It's a sticking detail. So, you have different options. You can do like a raised panel sticking, which will kind of give it more of a raised look like a bolection molding. It's a chain that you can put around. I think that's more for traditional though. Although True Style does have something called the linea, which has more of like a step look. So it kind of looks like it's stepping down into the flat recessed panel. It looks pretty neat. But that's how you would probably achieve a modern farmhouse look. It's just kind of making that door shaker style with divided lights.
Rob: So, in that four-foot opening, right on the cusp there, do you have to go with a double French [unintelligible 01:00:40]? If you are going to go with a single door, does it have to be pivot? That's kind of right there on the cusp but what would you say is kind of a general rule of thumb for, let's say, a 48-inch wide opening?
Rob: I know it's a tough one. I didn't give you an obvious one. It wasn't like 3x8 or...?
Daniel: Well, I mean, is it a finished opening? If it's rough, I'll drop it down a little bit to be honest. I think if you're going to go nine foot high, four foot wide might be a little too narrow.
Daniel: In my opinion.
Daniel: I'll probably drop it down to eight maybe. But our foot's pretty wide. I would in no way go with a double door. I'd stick with the standard swinging door.
Rob: Okay. And maybe implement like a sidelight. Would a sidelight be a good option in that instance and kind of more of a standard maybe front door option to save some cost or what would you recommend?
Daniel: That's the thing too. I mean, you can go with the transom on top too to kind of lower the door size and if you want to have some class that's a good thing you can implement. To lower cost, you can go with the sidelight and a standard interior 36-inch-wide door because that's a common size and it's still available.
Rob: Cool. Well, I think we're just about right on the hour. I'm going to do one last check and make sure there's no other questions that have come up since. It looks like we're good. Anyways, I'm going to go back to the last slide here, which contains Daniel, your contact information here. What's the best way to get in touch with you Daniel and check out your showroom?
Daniel: Email. You can just email me directly, Daniel.Macias@SanLorenzoLumber.com.
Daniel: I'm available Monday through Saturday. So, you can just feel free to schedule a time that works for you. Of course, we'll try to coordinate because it's relatively busy right now. It's still booming out there. A lot of builds going on.
Daniel: And just to let you know too, what I'm doing for your guys as customers who want to take the trip to this beautiful Santa Cruz, California because it's started get sunny, things are starting to open up, I'm going to give them $100 gift card so that they can come, help pay for some gas, maybe buy a meal while they walk on the boardwalk.
Rob: Oh, wow. That sounds--
Daniel: It's definitely something I would extend out to your clients.
Rob: Is that offer open to me too?
Daniel: Oh, but that one comes with the beard.
Rob: All right. Fair enough.
Daniel: I'm just joking.
Rob: No, that's really generous of you Daniel and definitely that would be incentive enough for me to make my way over there if I was in the middle of choosing some interior doors. I know you also offer some windows as well that they can take a look at while they're there. Daniel: Yeah, that's a different beast as well. That's a whole different topic. Probably take another hour.
Daniel: But we offer a lot of products and we have a nice showroom. Definitely help you get an idea in making choices for your new projects and your residence, your dream house.
Rob: Awesome. Hey, well, Daniel, thank you again for taking the time out of your lunch hour and hopefully everybody found it informative. And hopefully it wasn't boring. You kept everybody engaged. So, thanks everyone for attending.
Daniel: All right.
Rob: All right.
Daniel: You guys, have a good day.
Rob: Be careful All right.
Daniel: You're welcome.